Welcome to the beyond digital transformation podcast! A platform for results driven mining industry leaders, to share their stories of transformation in deploying people- focused technology practices that deliver meaningful, measurable impacts for their mining operations. This podcast features experiences and opinions from established mining industry leaders and influencers who have participated in the beyond digital transformation mining technology conference series since 2018. Thank you everybody for joining our beyond digital transformation, linked in live kickoff, BD T is known for doing things differently every single time. And as a grassroots conference, we can cause we're not really a conference. We're just, raising money for charity and talking to mining companies to see what they want. So here we are with Stephen Flewelling And, just to just a quick acknowledgement, just wanted to say thank you to our sponsors, a red path and PACE dot global. We've had these sponsors since the very inception of our conference all the way. 2018 since BDT 2018. And so thank you to them. And of course, thank you to our committee members and our team that make this event possible. There's a lot of people behind making something like this possible. It's almost like having a wedding every year, and speaking of every year, so we didn't really have an official BDT 20, 21, but I just wanted to, give you guys an update on what happened at BDT 2021. We were very fortunate to partner with XPS, process solutions and, Pascal's team at XPS and our team at pace, collectively work together with Dominic Fragomeni And we actually made this, global conference Real where we identified eight figures worth of, annualized, metallurgical improvements and savings and things like that. So there was a process that we followed, which then resulted in the BDT idea factory format that you might've seen in certain places. And we had a few mining companies hire us to BDT idea factory, and everybody wanted to do it privately, not publicly. So that's where we were all of last year as our current conference was progressing. So we're officially five years, but this is the fourth annual conference that we're inviting everyone to participate in. we like to think of beyond digital transformation as a community and a grassroots movement, because we really aren't an official conference. our income is not dependent on it. We really do donate a hundred percent of our proceeds after expenses to charity every year. And we started because we wanted to bring the mining company perspective to the table. all the conferences we've attended in the past has had a lot of rules. Wonderful, vendor perspectives, but really looking at, you have to dig deep to really be able to convince operations managers and people that work in operations to come out and share their stories and tell us what they think. So we're really fortunate to have, Steven here today, driving some mining industry collaboration, before I do that, I just want to announce a couple of events that are coming. In a couple of days from now, shared is shared technologies with Nathan, Cheryl, and Jaan are, I'm very excited to be hosted with them to talk more about BDT to the innovation community. So if you guys are a vendor, you ladies, however you identify yourself are a vendor in a different industry or in an industry that's already more progressed than mining. And you want to see how. Participate in remote first and mining, we welcome you to attend. the event registration link is right on our websites. If you go to bdt.network/events, you will be able to register there. No problem. And I'm very excited to announce the very first committee kickoff, which is a connectivity and communication committee with Charles Martin and Greg. So, AVEVA is our gold sponsor for that event of AVEVA is what makes that event possible. we're going to do about four events as we go along and, Charles Martin and Greg and I work together to come up with a series of. Questions that we need to answer when it comes to connectivity and communication and how do we make remote first possible. And what are the big challenges facing that? If you think you have something to contribute in the connectivity and communication space, and you would like to participate as one of our panelists, one of our subject matter experts definitely go to our website, bdt.network and just go get involved. And we will connect back with you and see what you have to offer and go from there. So the next piece that we have here is, our kick-off event, of course, you know, we are not actively selling tickets for the kickoff event and the reason we're not actively selling tickets to the kickoff event is because of. We are having the kickoff event in Sudbury and due to COVID that there restrictions in terms of the event, capacity is very restricted. So we actually cannot sell any more tickets. Our sponsors have purchased all of our tickets they're already spoken for, but capacity limits might increase and we might have a few tickets available. So what we decide to do is to make it fun and get you to participate. If you go back to bd.events, Go to the register now button, when it comes to the March 22nd kickoff event, you can place a bid. There's no money right now involved, but you can place a bid for how much you're willing to donate to attend the kickoff event. If you place a bid higher than I believe it's$200, you also get a guaranteed invite to our secret BDT, VIP event that happens the night before, which also has a very small, guest list. So definitely go, tell us how much you're willing to contribute. And if our tickets come available, you're, you'll be on our wait list and we will prioritize based on. Donated. So that's really what we're doing is they're prioritizing based on price donated for the separate action center for you. So that's who you're going to be supporting if you will be donating the dollars. And so what I'm going to do is I'm going to just putting a link here in the chat, just to give you an idea of what's going on with Sudbury action center for youth. So that's what we're doing in terms of supporting our charity of choice this year. And I think that is it for the initial announcements. oh yes, we do have two more in-person events coming up one August 22nd, one in Toronto, December 2nd, the December 2nd event we're hoping is a big do. So it's it's, I remember going to the gold Corp disrupt mining event and I just thought all my. Wouldn't it be lovely to have something like this. And I don't think it's going to be quite as grand of a scale. We haven't budgeted for it, certainly, but I'm looking forward to, doing a big get together this December, hopefully when, we can go back to the old way of being, because I still remember selfies from many, many, mining events. PDAC what have you, which, you know, where we're at very close to people, rather than having to stay socially distanced with the, in masks and such. yeah, so that's pretty much our announcements and we're going to get in for the main event. man, who needs no announcements, for him as all, no introduction and Steven how I met Steven foiling and how he ended up being conference chair speaks to the grassroots movement part of BDT. So five years ago, I, decided to do this and BDT conference and people told me, if you want someone to come to a conference, you need a big thing. And and I said, so who would be the big name in mining technology? And they said Rick house. So I went to Toronto and I bid on Rick house at the women in mining event. It's a mentorship time with him and I actually failed that bid, but I. I did win big with the Sharon international cause I got a mentor from there and, Rick house anyways supported me and agreed to be my honorary conference chair. that year I went back to Toronto this December, and I just mentioned, the remote first theme to Steven. And guess what here's Steven is because he took it away. Like I knew that remote first is supposed to be a thing. I know the reasons I have ideas of reasons that want to go that way, but I really, Steven really has. Through and through the real intent of why go remote first? Why talk about it in mining at all. So without further ado, I am going to ask, since this is going to be a Q and a type format, I'm seeing the chats come through, like Craig talked about the temperature and Sudbury being a minus 27 degrees. And so whether you're watching this event live right now, which we really appreciate, and we're very grateful for, you being here or if you're watching a recording later, definitely send in questions anyways, cause Steven always is very curious about the types of questions that are coming in. So let's get started and, here are some initial questions as we get kicked off. So the very first question Steven is what's the point of this conference as we call it. So why even bother doing it?

Yeah, I think that's a great question. Neha we, you this is the first one, another one of a series. I think we're in an evolution of both the technology, but more importantly, thinking about maybe why this evolution is important and maybe thinking about. More about how it's going to be important and how it's going to be important to people. So I think this conference is a great vehicle to ask those questions. Why are we doing it? How do we get people more involved? How do we design mines to take advantage of the technological evolution? And how do you create the right ecosystem between the operators of minds, the designers of minds and the different, technical providers of equipment and systems that can, can make this happen. So it's a great conversation, cause I think it's going to be about a conversation. It's not a linear path. There's no easy way. This is quite disruptive relative to how operations are currently designed in my mind. It's also going to be quite. challenge to, to make mines more productive using this technology as a base and changing them. So this conference allows that dialogue.

Absolutely. And I remember you saying to Steven that remote first could mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people, right?

Yeah, for sure. you know, I think what I believe with some of the historic context, when we talk about remote and people think it means replacing. people, I don't think it means replacement. I think it means enhancement. I think remote gives more opportunity to change the types of people that we would, that we deploy in mining operations, whether you deploy them close to the operation, but remotely in a control room, or you take the next step in, in deploy them remotely from a far distance away, in another, another city or town. I don't think it has to mean the same thing. I think what remote does though, is it changes the fundamental pieces of how work gets done so that it's both more productive, it's safer. And those are some of the common themes. But I think even what I think is more important in emerging is it invites in a whole different. Type of person to be interested in working in mining. And, I think, I think that has the potential to change hunting from is both, what people perceive it is, as a low tech industry, which in my view, it isn't, but even a much more advanced, exciting business that, that people will want to be part of.

Absolutely. Steven, thanks. Thanks for sharing that. so the other question, the burning question is why have this conversation now? is it time to have that conversation?

Yeah, I think it is, I think the, between the challenges that mining has both technical challenges, as you know, the, the mines in Sudbury are getting deeper. Mines are challenged cost-wise and need to be more productive. Those are the traditional reasons, but I also think we are going to be very hard pressed to get the people. To effectively work in our minds. And I think this is a great opportunity to start to pivot it based upon technologies that are much more robust than they were 20 years ago when, this perspective began, and start to orient the, from a technological management system to a more holistic system around what's the role of the people? How do you get different people? How do you get different roles and make it more people focused rather than technical focused. So I think that's what.

Awesome. So speaking of making it people focused and technical versus technical focus here is our, BDT, different, different BDT streams. And really the streams are representing the definition of the whole system because in order for us to go remote first, it's not just that we have to change one thing. you know, we are very fortunate to spend some time with Stephen and hear him, speak about the why and thinking of things as a system. And these streams are exactly from there is there's a whole system that goes into designing, the remote first. In mining, which really is a daunting thought when you think about it. the starting, stream that we're starting with is a conductivity and communication stream. And, Micah who also, has a, announcement today in terms of how to apply for about$40 million worth of funding. is part part of this particular stream, Charles from Mica, Greg sand bloom from Sudbury integrated nickel operations, who is, has years and years of experience managing technologies. And of course, Martin from Who has global experience in figuring out, how to get, mining systems connecting and talking to each other. So we're starting the conversation with connectivity and communication, but if you're interested in being a stream chair or sponsoring one of these streams, we're expecting this to, to go, on for, for a little bit longer, like it's gonna, it's gonna go a little bit, a little while longer. So I'm just going to drop a little, Calendly link there to say, definitely connect with me. And we'd be happy to have a conversation in terms of, you know, the commitment to, to be a stream chair. The most important thing that we need in stream chairs is, a real interest in the particular stream. So that's the most enthusiasm is that is the most important thing we need at the table. So these are the different streams. You go to our website, you'll see them there as well. And, definitely would love to see you guys get involved. So another question, that's that's come up and this is my favorite question. And it's written the way it's written because we are in the mining sector. So a hundred times we go to a mine site, Steven, and, you know, oftentimes the mine managers asking when we do change management activities or what have you, is the juice really worth the squeeze though? is it really worth it to go remote? Like that? that's a little bit of a tough question. And I'm just going to put that question out to everybody that's on LinkedIn live right now with us, is like, is the juice really worth the squeeze? Like how do you justify the ROI?

I think that's one of the fundamental questions obviously is the effort worth the benefit. And, and I think if you look at it in a more holistic way, and you think about how a mine is going to run in the future, not just what the increment is. I think the answer becomes, yes. The challenge is, how and so in where there was issues, when you had technology that wasn't either applicable or railroad robust enough, the system failed early. So I think that's the first test in any time you're thinking about changing a system to make it more productive, is that if it doesn't have the right foundation of technical, opportunity. The answer is probably no. And then you say, what do we have to do to make the change? that to the culture and the culture is the combination of management's receptiveness to change, management's ability to change, and then the energizing of people to want to make the change. So I think if you look at why you gotta be on for a significant people change in order to make it worth. And I think there's going to have to be significantly more work, on the people side of things to actually make the juice worth this.

Absolutely. And, while we get into the other questions, I have the, in the invitation here to the people on LinkedIn live. Cause I do realize we, the LinkedIn live feed is a little bit slower than the speed at which we're progressing. Steven. So the questions that come in might come in a little bit staggered as they come through. So, definitely please ask your questions in terms of our, our provide your input. This is the opportunity for you to really share your subject matter expertise, right? If you have some something to share in terms of ROI, what are we going to think about for remote first? Because we see at the end of the year, we're going to have some solid data from a lot of different perspectives. How do we come up with those parameters? Like those questions that we're asking, how do we come up with the parameters for determining value to an operation to go remote first? that ROI piece has been a big problem solved even with global mining guidelines group when they did all their surveys, but all the mining companies that's a big thing is ROI is important. Cause if it ain't broken, Steven, why would we fix it?

I think you have to think about, this is a business built on people. You've got to be able to get the people or you have no ROI. So the, and I think that we have to try and evolve that it broadens the business to be attractive, to a broader set of. And therefore, you can't have much ROI if you have no revenue. And if you have no revenue because you have no mine because you can't get the right people to operate it and be part of it. So I think it's, there's an evolution in mining that maybe we have to think about, what is a more attractive foundation of the type and approach to the work. So that we're much more popular for people that want to work for us, rather than they don't have a choice, whether that's because of their locale or, what their background is. And I think the world's going to be very competitive for good people going forward. So think about it as a mechanism, not just to improve from a financial point of view, but get the people that we need to run these businesses as part of them. Yeah, I think there's a broader thinking around rather than just the traditional terms of ROI, which is versus some baseline that you already have in place.

I'm almost thinking Steven that they, that there would need to be, because currently when we think about KPIs, we think about KPIs in terms of production. We think about KPIs in terms of safety, right? I think that, and in Human resources, we think about KPIs in terms of retention. But I think that there almost is a new formulation of KPIs you would need to know from a long-term sustainability perspective, because what I'm hearing you say almost like in the undertones it may not be, it may not be financially attractive to go remote first and to design the jobs in that way right now. But it governs your longterm stability of your business, your longevity of the business. If you design jobs that people want to stay in and people want to keep and you can keep them happy. Then you are that much more competitive into the future. So

I think that's the key word is competitive. It's not. Return, we have a more fundamentally competitive business. You look at what the service industry is going to go through because of COVID-19, the days that, we've have, we have to adapt to the work at home, which, work at home is it is a type of remote first work. But in, in a much easier setting, given that the actual work is not that much different, but I think people have choice. And if you want to be competitive in that choice, and enhance your competitiveness, I think this is a great way to think about how to design to be more attractive, not just designed to be at least on paper more financially. Yeah,

that's awesome. It's going to matter that you are able to be that attractive employer of choice who can retain and engage and keep their people, happy whether it's working from home or however else. The remote first is really the answer. The people answer to the question is what I'm hearing you say.

The remote first is more of a mindset. Orientation to focus on, looking at it from the end forward, rather than from where we are today out. So it's, what does it take? Was it take in all the elements to get our thinking evolved to that? We want to do this because it's the right solution to make a robust, attractive business and change the orientation and move a little bit away from the incremental ism that we have with respect to how we do it today, because it's comfortable and easier. If you just do a little bit of incremental stuff on top.

Absolutely. Absolutely. It's it's, it's really disrupting the way we think right at the end of the day, and

that's gotta be a management led.

Oh, for sure. And that, I think that's where the culture piece comes in. it's if your management is resisting it right at the beginning, if your vision is not aligned and it's not clarified why you're doing this, you're just not going to move forward. so the next question of course is, you know, what do we need to do to get the culture ready? So we we talked about the management culture how do we know if the management culture is ready or not? And definitely everyone that's watching please pipe in terms of your opinions, in terms of what you think we need to do to get the management culture ready, because this is very much a collaborative conversation, even though we're not putting out polls and surveys today and we have the ability to, and we certainly can, we're really looking to spark this conversation about remote first. So Stephen, tell us, you, what do you think that we need to do to get the culture ready to

go? w we, we led with the discussion around management, so without the right management culture and and what does that mean? First of all, it means that management recognizes that it's a business imperative. To evolve and change how things are done and whether or not that is on, meets the right Ori, but must take it that it's a requirement. So if it's a requirement, then you say, what does the does management and management, including not just top management, but right down through the supervisory chain is willing to make changes that are, more aggressive than they've traditionally been. So they're willing to make those changes. A cautious approach is probably going to be very challenging in my view then is the workforce ready? And culturally ready? Are they willing to do the work, in the way that we want to in the future? I think there will be some challenges, you know, one term I use in, describing, the. 50 years of mining, particularly underground is the, the, establishment of what I call an artisan culture. And an artisan culture is empowering people, but they are empowered to do things a lot the way they want to do it rather than an a common knit system. So I think that's one of the challenges. That's why we implemented underground mining. For example, with bonus systems were to make individuals more motivated to get the work done with minimal. Some of those things might be cultural misfits in the future in terms of how well those things can fit in and potentially conflict with, with the, the way we want the operation to run in a remote first mindset where things are done with less variability and a much more engineered and standardized way. So taking on those things and those elements of the culture at the workforce level, I think is going to be a requirement. And then there's the culture of people wanting to work in the business and that they want to be here. They want to make a difference and that we're relying on them to make a difference and want to participate in a modern evolution of mining. So I think those are the key cultural aspects.

Awesome. So the, I I'm curious, so I, we just got a comment here in the chat. sorry, Steven. I got you. I took you off the screen, our keynote. so we, we just had a commentary in the chat. Can you read that? It's pre PREA Maloney is working on health and wellness and the mining industry and, you know, oh, Melanne is here as well. So w let's go with Premier's con comment. it's really all about the story that's meaningful to the worker, So how do you imagine introducing the culture of change for the workforce? How will it impact the mindset of the traditional workforce that has worked in the industry for generations? That's a really good point that Priya makes, cause I, I have personally seen that. we've tried to bring in a remote first culture at certain organizations and we really have had folks and these are in remote sites go, just want to be at site like, so that's a really great question that preamp brought up. So what would you say to that, Steve? And that's a flexi question for you.

First of all, remote first, depending on the operation doesn't mean remote from the site. Remote first. Means the work's not done in the same way. So that's nber one. So whether you're remote from the site, because that's appropriate for the combination of constraints that the operation has, whether those be technical or people, I think you can still take advantage of the remote first mindset to change how the work's done. So it doesn't have to mean that in my mind. it's an opportunity, but it, I think it allows us to think about, where the work can be done, but more so how it's done and give people who work in the industry, a pathway to be part of how it's going to be done in the future. They're going to have to buy into. And there's going to be lots of work to get people to buy into that changes required. And, for certain operations, whether they be extremely profitable, have a shorter life. They may have a very light program with respect to adopting some approach like this operations that are more technically challenged, more operationally challenged, they're going to be more motivated. So I think each site is going to have to look at it. What does it mean to them, but still try and adopt a mindset of, picking the right spots for that orientation in that.

Abs absolutely Steven. And here's a common from 4 million hearse, out in Raglan. And just to shout out to you and Milan cause, cause you've been such a great supporter of BDT and giving of your time and the BDT idea factory series as well. So thank you. Thank you for participating. so he says, you need to get motivated to improve safety and higher risk zones. For example, bolting process face marking real-time location in case of ground fall, fire collision avoidance, lot of technology pieces here, Milan that you're referring to. And really interesting segue into, a series of questions that, that, Steven and I have been going back and forth on because we really think at this point, the technology is. I don't know, I don't know about you Mullen, but we really think the technology is right, Steven

way more robust than it's been. Yeah. So that allows the evolution of the conversation to other factors as the focus rather than just isn't technologically possible.

Absolutely. And so the, on a different note, Mullen also makes a point around the development and design piece, where we've said, you need to make the mining extraction process more as a continuous process and work 24 hours without blasting gas, evacuation, or staff strapped for instructions. So that's another big thing in terms of, getting the culture ready. You have anything to add to that,

Steven? Yeah. I think those are elements of what a row remote first mindset will. That's some of the payback, right? you increase the efficiency of the business because the, it, it produces revenue in a greater percentage of time versus it does right now. So absolutely. But I don't think it has to be absolute. Okay. It's an evolution that you can look at different elements, unit processes, and make them maybe less complexity remote first without having to change everything all at once. And so is it a continu towards more continuous? Yes. Is it work more time per day? Yes. Does it have to be truly honored percent continuous or work 24 hours? Maybe not, but those are all th there's a huge opportunity from where we are today. To 24 hours.

Abs. Absolutely. And I think the key there is iterative change. So if you're an existing mining operation, how do you get, how do you get going on iterative change instead of ongoing change and things like that? So, as fart Farquer, I've, I've, I've been chatting with garish lately, and he's talking about, while remote first is being discussed, explored a few countries like Iceland are already moving towards a four day a week, including Dubai. That's a good point. UAE who now have a four and a half day week. How does all of this come into play? remote and shorter week? is that what we're looking at here? Potentially student?

I think it, it depends on the culture the, of the. it doesn't have to be the remote means just how the work is designed. How many days the individuals work in the design system is going to be, kind of country or location specific, whatever. I think that's going to be an issue of social appropriateness if you want to call it. and we'll, what does it take to get people? So in certain cultures working four days a week is going to be part of the equation to get people and make it attractive to them. But it's about making the work more continuous, whether or not the people work five days or four days or six days a week, then, changing how the work's done. So that really doesn't matter in.

Yeah, I, they, in my perception on that is that is another reason someone would welcome remote first. Cause it, that the point that Melanne made a little bit earlier in terms of the continuous operation, is, is really around. if you are a less dependent on people being there. So blast clearing is not a problem. Those kinds of things are not a problem. And you can truly get a full utilization of your asset, where it is. and you may actually enhance the quality of life for the individuals working on that asset, whether they live close or they live far, or what have you. But a remote is certainly remote first is certainly not about, being far away. it's all about, you know, About whatever makes best sense to the mining organization in general. I think that was a very exciting conversation, Steven, w I'm just going to continue on with a couple more slides and the cons the leg is significant. between when we're doing our live presentation and what's showing up on LinkedIn, cause we're just learning about this whole LinkedIn live staff meet, you know? so we're probably not going to pause too long. I'm just going to encourage you right now to add in your questions as soon as you can, because there is a significant lag between when we are going live. And when I see something on, the LinkedIn live. So I just wanted everybody to be aware of that. Like it's about a minute, which when you're alone, It's a very long time. So the next, piece here is a call out for stream co-chairs. So if you're interested in any of our streams and I'm going to pull, I'll put my streams back up on the screen, actually. So if you're interested in participating, we have certain stream co-chair positions full already. we have, some that are already gone. The methods machinery I gone for stream co-chair. But if you have something that. To contribute from a remote, first perspective. We would love to hear from you, when it comes to any of these streams, because it's a conversation that we're not just going to have this year. It's a long-term conversation that we're going to have because the possibilities of remote first are just wild. There's just so much out there. And we have one more, comment here on, from, so I'm gonna read this out loud cause you can't see it all on the screen. So I'm going to hide it and read it here for you, Steven, as, as the comments coming through. And here is the comment that's coming through. So from an oil and gas perspective, our OCS are multi multidisciplinary collaboration centers that strive to strike balance between having the right people, technology and processes in place to monitor Wells in real time from offsite locations. That's a really good point. Thanks for sharing that too, from offsite location to maximize operational potential and better ensure services quality before our CS were introduced, the industry operators face nerous challenges when drilling in crowded oil fields or in remote areas that. That had wellbore stability and service, reliability issues, subject matter experts extend their knowledge and skills from, across several sites for better performance and utilization. So streaming live data into analytical software solutions increases drilling efficiencies by providing optimization specialist capabilities to make recommendations and adjust drilling parameters in real time. Wonderful story from Charlotte in terms of the oil and gas perspective, where they were at one point and where they are right now, anything that come to mind. And I have a thought around digital transformation there, but it's

a really cool, I think it's a good example of applying the remote first mindset to, to change the way the work is done. Not just monitor it, but change the way it's done. And and a nber of tools that are useful in, in.

Absolutely. I think the one thing from Sharla's point that I just wanted to put out there is, our conference title is called beyond digital transformation. And when we say beyond digital transformation, we, digital transformation is in the name. So we're saying, it's not just digital transformation. It's beyond digital transformation, Charlotte, the point that you've made over there in terms of the live data that streams into, into people's, dashboards or what have you. And they get to make different decisions that in my opinion, in Pace's opinion is the single most simple definition of digital transformation. Digital transformation is a hundred percent about getting faster, better access to data. In the right hands so that you can make better, more effective, safer decisions with that data. So that's a brilliant point that you shared Charla, because I think if anyone is confused about what digital transformation actually means, does it mean, fancy robots? Does it mean cool looking gadgets? Does it mean, you know, vehicles that are autonomous or whatever? Yes. It means all of that, but really all of that is pretty useless if you're not actually putting the right data in the right hands with the right amount of. Quality attached to it. So that's that point that you just put there. Charlotte is, is, is a really great point. it's been a lovely conversation today, Stephen, this is, this has been just so great to, have everybody here, you know, participate. You've had a really active audience. We didn't expect the audience to be, very, like available, but I'm surprised that you guys are so available because LinkedIn live is one of those kind of strange platforms. So what we are going to be doing in the near future is we are going to be, offering, this service called a BDP backstage pass I turned off my sound at one point on my phone, but I guess I didn't do it very well. So apologies for that. It's in airplane mode now. so what we are going to be doing is we're going to be introducing the BDT backstage pass and the backstage pass is going to give us access into unique insights that we're going to be getting out of the various events. It's going to give us advanced networking opportunities and things like that. I think we're trying to find a, a platform where we're able to. Connect more meaningfully with our audience and that are when our audience shows up in a synchronous or an asynchronous fashion. you can do the surveys, you can provide your input, whether you are available for the event, time or date or not. So we're working on putting something like that together. We're working in collaboration with house space to make that happen. So I will be announcing, the BDT backstage pass. Once the team has a chance to catch up to the vision that we've set out there. So, in the next couple of meetings, you would see a special announcement for that. Not much is going to change. You can still watch the events for free on LinkedIn. You don't have to go to the backstage, but if you wanted more meaningful participation and you have something more to add from your unique perspective, we would love to hear from you. So I have one last question, Steven, before I, I, I call a close on this particular one. I'm just gonna go to that last question. And, the last question is from gears again, how do you suggest that any company compensate those who cannot work remote factory production operations? Should they get any bonus? Also, if most of us work remotely, how will the city or province compensate for running the infrastructure costs? so maybe that's, and, and I can see why you're asking the question, but I think Steven, I know your answer is to go right ahead.

Yeah. Yeah. So again, it's remote doesn't mean far away or different place for one. Okay. Remote means doing the. It could be a couple of hundred meters away. Okay. It could be on surface. It could be in another town. So there's, depending on the work remote doesn't mean, it means making the work more productive through more continuous operations through longer turn to avoid some of the variability and the interruptions that we get. So it doesn't mean that however, where it does become more, more remote and in different location, the, people are going to businesses are going to have to think about what does that mean relative to, to support. And they're licensed to operate in the low, in the areas where they have the mind and the value that goes to the community that actually hosts the mine is probably going to have to be. Calculated differently than if it's the traditional way where the people live in the community that the mind operates in. So I think that

absolutely brilliant point. And I'm going to, I'm going to pick up one last question from Cheryl before, before we, call it to an end and just to add to Steven's point, garish, were discussing remote first here in the mining sector. One primarily because one of the driving forces is mines are getting more and more remote and, and we really want to partner with communities at the expertise level that's available in those communities. And we don't believe that mining needs to be as complex are as artisan, as specialized. Like we could be, could really disrupt the way. Mining jobs are divided and organized. So there are different level jobs available for lots of different people. So those are some, oh, so, so those are some points, but there's a related question here before I go to your sheriff, from James Keenan and he says, why focus on remote work as opposed to automated work?

my view is remote work still has a very substantial people, element to it. A person is still deciding, managing intervening in how the work is done. Automated work means you've thought through all the elements of variability and how the work is done, and they, it's an, it's a part of remote work, but way more complex. And harder to implement. So remote work is just a way to get, some of the benefits without this degree of technical risk or challenge that goes with fully automated.

Yeah. So James, into to, to add to that point to the remote, first is a T a step towards that. So we have a four question theme that carries through every single presentation that goes through. And, some of the questions were already answered today, which was, is the juice worth? The squeeze is the culture writing and Cheryl is going to be picking up on, on the culture question as a closing question. But the third question there, because in order to automate like Elon Musk has this process in terms of, simplify processes, get rid of the stuff you don't need in the process and then automate. So I think that where we are currently. Not in the processing plants. I'm not gonna, I'm not going to talk about this in the processing plants, because of course, the processing plants are the data gods and the digital transformation leaders in the mining sector. So I'm not talking about processing when I'm talking about what I'm going to say, I'm talking about the mining operations. So when we talk about the mining operations, that the work is not standardized to a level where automation can really come in. If you put in automation to the level of work, the way the level of work is automation just wouldn't work at this time at this juncture. So remote first is more about trying to say, If you didn't have to do everything hands-on you could just be up like, you know, like a kilometer away. You could just be on surface operating underground, just like Charlotte pointed out, you know, they have these oil fields and they're operating remotely. those, those particular operations. So it doesn't, you don't have to be in a different country. So automation is definitely that next level up. But the question that I'm going to just post Cheryl's question here now. the question that, that Cheryl asks is, how much support and mindset of advice of advancing the mining culture in our schools, do you think is required because that's what it is, right? Like Steven's talking about mining seeming to be a old school. Like not in his opinion, but the perception of mining, when you think about it, you know, is, oh my God, it's an old school type job. You gotta go underground, you gotta do this. And, and that kind of stuff. So what is it that we need to do in our schools? Like what kind of advancing the mining? This it's a tough question, Cheryl. I'm just going to throw it out, Steven, because you're the chair today.

Yeah. Thanks. no, but I think it's not only school. It's got to start at homes. Okay. It's got to be mining companies have to be a little bit more outward. if you want to sellers of what they're doing, rather than expecting people to know. And I think schools are an element of that, but also I think advertisement, I think if you change the work and you start to recruit people with a different type of work, I think you'll start to break that down. And yes. Is there some work at schools to do yes. To start to change that. But I think it's going to, the major issue is going to be changing the work and changing the recruiting and who you're targeting and because the schools is going to be a challenge in terms of how the work is. And some of the perceptions of where the mining community is from an environmental management. For sure.

I hundred percent agree with you, Steven. Cause you've just got to follow the money, right? Cheryl, like schools only teach what people give jobs for. So if the mining companies get to the point of process sizing, standardizing, getting to pre automation or even automation, that's when the demand for a curricul will come up. So for example, Cameron college and their battery electric vehicle program. And, and, you know, I think, cholesterol, rail has a Bev program as well. and that's also happening in some of our more remote parts of the north. So, and the reason the BB programs are there now, It's because we have the EVs mainstream and they're into the mainstream. So a hundred percent we have to follow the money. So if we can convince the miners that remote first is a good solution. if we can get them seeing, maybe creating a KPI, a performance metric around a people related performance metric in terms of sustainability of the. That you will have in your workforce over the long-term. And how do you guarantee that level of sustainability and loyalty to your company? Because you're enjoying the work. if you can guarantee that you have simplified the work to a degree that, you have very low barrier to hiring so little barrier recruiting for all kinds of people, with all kinds of different abilities. I think that is what's going to drive the school culture and not the other one. Steven, I appreciate you taking that question up first because I wouldn't have had the time to think about that response before, before I came up. So everybody thank you very much for attending. I'm just gonna flash one last thing up on the screen. so on Thursday, Cheryl's here, supporting us and she is also asked me to bring this topic to some innovators that, are basically. talking about how to get into the mining industry and what they can do to help towards the mining industry. So just like Sharada brought up that point from oil and gas, we were looking to hear from innovators in a couple of days from now, coming up and then don't forget our next event after that is March 8th around with, Charles Martin and Greg, and it's going to be a panel discussion and they are going to be announcing the types of topics we're looking for in terms of, experts and things like that when it comes to the topic of connectivity and communication. So that's it for us today, Steven, any last words?

So I'm just glad to be part of a, a group of people who, you know, want to change things and make the mining industry a better place, not just a better place for, as a business, but as a place for people to work and. Thank you so

much. That's awesome. Thanks Steven. And Nathan, just put in the registration for the next event here, so thank you everybody.